|>>||Anonymous 25jul2017(tu)20:22 No.51733 OP |P1
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 25jul2017(tu)20:28 No.51734 SWF |P2R1
|>>||Anonymous 25jul2017(tu)20:31 No.51735 OP |P3R2
|we'll need backups of flashplayer|
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 25jul2017(tu)20:34 No.51736 SWF |P4R3
|Looks like we'll be moving into scene territory a little quicker than I expected.|
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)02:09 No.51766 B |P5R4
archived sticky for future reference
So many lies. Adobe just wants to drop swf like a hot potato.
A hot potato of steaming shit.
Like they care about the format of the past that made them what they are today. They just resent the liability to even care about it anymore.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)02:38 No.51767 C |P6R5
|Adobe still seems to blame Apple for this somewhat. I don't. Flash really couldn't have worked on those tiny old iPhones. However, there's a lot of internet history (some archived here) that will stop working once the standalone flash player becomes incompatible with newer operating systems. Flash's interactivity makes it difficult to properly translate swfs into regular video files- Homestar Runner has been grappling with this issue for years.|
It will only be truly devastating if they refuse to open source Flash player. If they choose not to, then Adobe is telling everyone that the past two decades of internet history are completely irrelevant. A great number of works of art would be lost for good.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)03:30 No.51768 D |P7R6
>Flash really couldn't have worked on those tiny old iPhones.
Dude flash worked on the tiny old Android phones at the time and AIR works just fine on both iPhone and Android today. Don't believe for a second that Apple didn't disallow Flash simply because it would have reduced app sales.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)07:38 No.51773 OP |P8R7
Yup, many flash games or interactive swfs were ported to the app store. Even if the game itself was free, the person putting it in the story had to pay a fee to put it in there in the first place.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)09:47 No.51777 E |P9R8
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)12:29 No.51779 F |P10R9
|Did we not know this was going to happen? Seriously? Did you all not read the writing on the wall? Flash is incredibly insecure, proprietary, and depreciated.|
Thank God Flash is dead.
This is a good thing. Especially for SWFchan. This means that people who use niche sites like this one and NewGrounds (yes, NewGrounds is niche. It's definitely not mainstream, anymore) can continue to use Flash without being nearly as concerned about security exploits circling around the web, because Flash is no longer the precedent. You know why MacOS "doesn't get viruses"? Well, unlike what Apple says, there are a plenty of horrible bugs for make, but not nearly to the calibre that Windows and other UNIX(-like) operating systems experience. Why? Because MacOS makes up 10% of the desktop market and practically 0% of the server market. It's a small target, and there's not as much incentive to write and circulate MacOS exploits as a result.
Granted, there's still bad stuff for Flash users out there in the wild, and with no one to maintain it, they're going to remain unfixed; but for Flash, that's like plugging holes in a colander. It's fundamentally a piece of shit software. But it has so much cultural significance. It would be a good idea to use pepperflash instead of vanilla Flash because of sandboxing. I'm no security specialist, but I would imagine using a pepperflash wrapper in Firefox would be a better idea than just Flash in itself, too, even though it doesn't have sandboxing.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)12:41 No.51780 F |P11
Adobe was always going to drop Flash. Who could blame them? It's a mess. It's a blemish in the face of Adobe that they'll never get rid off. Their """maintaining""" Flash never meant anything. Ever since YouTube stopped using Flash exclusively, Adobe realized Flash was no longer going to be the standard and started distancing themselves. This "announcement" is merely a formality to the fact that they were always distancing themselves from Flash.
You don't know what you're talking about. Reduce app sales? Like hell. I'm the first one to point out how much Apple and Microsoft love to shaft their userbase, but, if there's one thing that I can respect Apple for doing, its their contributions to open web standards. Make no mistake, I'm not saying that Apple or Steve Jobs or whatever were some kind of idealists or anything other than a public traded company who's sole interest is to please their shareholders, but there are were just so many practical reasons why shouldn't have been supported on iOS. The first of which is security, which Flash doesn't have. It just doesn't. Imagine what that does to a brand if you pair that with Flash. And then Apple couldn't proliferate the myth that Apple products are virus-free.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)13:17 No.51781 D |P12R10
>You don't know what you're talking about.
Hey, right back at you. I'm sure Apple took a look at the tens of thousands upon thousands of flash games and went "gee wish we could bring these for free to our users but curse it we care too much about muh web standards", then they wept themselves to sleep on a bed made out of money. The guys at Apple don't give a shit about anything except making money, leaning on excuses like "web standards" is fine as long as it makes them more money at the end of the day.
Come on, this is the same company that recently got rid of the headphone jack standard just so that they could implement their own solution to a non-problem and earn a shit ton of license money. 3.5mm is completely free and works with god-damn everything while you can't even make the most basic adapter for the new Lightning crap without forking out a ton of money right into Apple's pocket.
Though I forget, people had been crying out for something that sounds just as good as 3.5mm but is impossible to repair yourself and is four times as expensive. Something with exposed connectors so that corrosion will destroy it faster with time so you get to buy a new one. Apple were the libirators that finally had the courage to answer the call! Just like they had the courage to look at flash and just say NO. No to free games, no to something that had become de-facto standard on the web due to its well-spread usage and most of all no to something they did not own and couldn't possibly make money from.
Many blame Google for flash's demise since they refused to let you publish your own swfs on YouTube, despite the fact you can easily strip away all ActionScript except what Google deems is absolutely safe. I'm not saying they were at all blameless in that regard, it's absolutely true, however when Apple's iPhone got super popular and people couldn't use YouTube in their phone's browser due to Apple's refusal of allowing flash on there, what else could Google do than to start looking for other solutions. That is what started flash's demise, none other than Apple.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)17:47 No.51792 OP |P13R11
I'm unfamiliar since I've never gotten one myself, how is Flash itself unsafe?
I've opened one flash on /f/ that, opened closed disc drive, opened infinite tabs, tried to print a bunch of paper and tried to crash flash itself. I can see maybe implementing options for the user to see who has permission to access their hardware as one improvement.
Is there a way to solely from the .swf to give someone a virus? Sure you could redirect to a website that gives you one but it's not quite the same.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)20:25 No.51795 G |P14R12
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)20:52 No.51796 H |P15R13
>Shumway is a piece of shit
At the moment. Regardless, it's the best bet for future in-browser support for existing .swf files.
Pretty much. In other words, Flash-like content is dead.
This may be the first time in history we're experiencing the death of a major digital art form due to tools fading into obscurity.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)21:09 No.51797 G |P16R14
After a quick google search I found Wick ( https://github.com/zrispo/wick ) which looks pretty promising but the editor itself is browser based which is a major turnoff.
Opentoonz, Studio Ghibli's fork of professional flashlike vector+raster animation tool Toonz was open sourced just last year, but it has no interactive content authoring tools, doesn't export to vector formats like SVG and only renders directly to png frames or ffmpeg.
|>>||Anonymous 26jul2017(we)22:50 No.51800 F |P17R15
Well, firstly, there's no such thing as a safe media file. There's no such thing as a safe anything, as long as you're executing code on your computer. I'm surprised you've never heard from anyone about the security issues Flash has. This video explains it really well:
The whole point of my argument was that Apple's stance on Flash and web standards was an exception to the precedent they set. I made a very concerted effort to make it clear that I wasn't trying to exonerate Apple or anything, and you come back at me with one giant ad hominem, a shit tonne of projection, and a rant on Apple policies that have NOTHING to do with Flash, nor my argument. In the same way that open-source relates to free software, there is plenty of utilitarian merit to an open web. And what I'm saying is that sacrificing the benefits of proprietary software for free software was a reasonable choice. You want to know why? Because Flash is proof of the consequences of proprietary software. You should know that. The fact that Flash is no longer officially maintained is just a bonus. And webkit, gecko, and spidermonkey are proof of the benefits of open-source.
|>>||Anonymous 27jul2017(th)01:31 No.51802 I |P18R16
|What will happen to the porn and SWF?|
|>>||Anonymous 27jul2017(th)04:08 No.51804 F |P19R17
Literally nothing. Flash still works, and as long as there's a scene, there will be a way to play flash--(most) modern web browser just won't support it.
|>>||Anonymous 27jul2017(th)18:45 No.51819 OP |P20R18
|email firstname.lastname@example.org if interested in developing an open source flash player|
|>>||Anonymous 28jul2017(fr)03:41 No.51828 J |P21R19
|It's dead, Jim. Just let it go peacefully.|
|>>||godk 28jul2017(fr)06:24 No.51831 K |P22R20
read carefully the post from Adooboo... they admit that pressure from their "partners" i.e. M$, Facejew, Googull, et.al. are responsible for their "decision" to bin their flagship moneymaker.
It makes you wonder just what side of their bread is buttered...
NO, it doesn't! It makes you realize just how pwnd they really are!
Flash is dying at the behest of monopolistic forces.
|>>||godk 28jul2017(fr)06:24 No.51832 K |P23
>You know why MacOS "doesn't get viruses"?
Yes, I do.
It's not that Mac is un-infectible; it is, very much so. It's because Mac-n-cheese represents less than 15 percent of the global OS base; botnet authors and other nefarious folk won't waste their time trying to leverage an insignificant segment of the 'controllable universe'.
If you're thirsty, you don't go to the desert to find water. Crooks know this. I'm surprised no one else does.
|>>||Anonymous 28jul2017(fr)07:13 No.51833 OP |P24R21
|>>||Anonymous 28jul2017(fr)12:41 No.51843 L |P25R22
>The whole point
Hey you're the one starting your posts right of the bat with "you don't know what you're talking about" and then now throwing out "ad hominem" like a latin-using poindexter. I repeat: Don't believe for a second that Apple didn't disallow Flash simply because it would have reduced app sales. That was the whole point of my "rant" and has EVERYTHING to do with your argument.
|>>||Anonymous 29jul2017(sa)00:27 No.51861 B |P26R23
|Well then, the thread on /f/ doesn't look too optimistic apart from maybe 2 anons spouting ideas for a html5 alternative board.|
What's your stand on this Ants? Will you pull the plug on this site when push comes to shove? Ad income will even further decrease most likely to 0 by 2020.
Do you intend to archive as many swfs you can by then? All of newgrounds for example, etc.
Maybe switch to a html5 container archive like it's the new /f/ (lol as if that would happen).
Do you intend to still serve a niche community like nothing happened. Or build a swf-viewing-tool, like a VM with an old browser and plugin of flash. Or an archive of all plugins and standalone projectors at least?
Does this really just imply that even more normies and newfags will drop and the ones still coming to an swf community will be the same as always?
I mean, projector.exes are not going anywhere anyway.
And security issues might be immortal by then, but still less enticing for scammers at the same time, because noone is ought to fucking use the thing anymore.
Personally, I'd really love a trustworthy download location of the last version of the NPAPI, PPAPI plugins and projectors, because it would be a nightmare to get them from an integer source at that point, and even my system might need a fresh install at some point in the future.
|>>||Anonymous 29jul2017(sa)04:51 No.51876 F |P27R24
That's literally what I just said. Jesus Christ. Do any of you assholes even read the whole thread?
On a different, less paranoid note, I was just thinking about how I had to use Flash when I was going to college in order access my grades, read the online textbooks that I paid for, and participate in my online courses. Of course, I like to use Flash recreationally, but there's a HUGE difference between using Flash to play some shitty porn games and using a known insecure, proprietary software as literally the only means of viewing my grades and participating in my classes. It was kind of fucked up. But in the context of our nation's education budget, I suppose it's unsurprising. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for colleges all around the West to change their infrastructure to something more contemporary and hopefully more open.
The direction W3C took with EME/DRM was pretty depressing in most respects, but in the context of Flash, it's kind of uplifting in a way: the fact that DRM can now be implemented in an open manner, while perverse, also means that's there's an incentive for universities to move all their shit to HTML5 and still manage to wring out every single penny from their student body via ebooks. Yay?
|>>||Anonymous 29jul2017(sa)06:34 No.51882 OP |P28R25
There were some people talking about forking gnash. Also >>51819
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 29jul2017(sa)13:10 No.51893 SWF |P29R26
As long as I'm not getting myself into debt and as long as at least a couple of people are still pressing the GET FILE button I don't see a reason to take down the site while I'm able to maintain it. Naturally nothing is certain, things can always change dramatically, but it wouldn't be much of an archive if it went away with the support of the thing it's supposed to be archiving. Flash plugins will still be installed for years to come, porn is a very effective incentive.
I don't think I'll be bothering with any HTML5 stuff, at least not if a single-file container format doesn't come around. I archived the Newground flashes with a 4 or 5 star rating many years ago, should try doing another run.
|>>||Anonymous 29jul2017(sa)16:41 No.51900 H |P30R27
>at least not if a single-file container format doesn't come around.
That already exists, it's called .html. A single HTML file can already contain absolutely anything. JS and CSS files can be simply embedded in proper tags and any kind of binary data (images, etc) can be embedded as data-URIs or JS blobs. It would be very simple to programmatically turn a flash-like project with html, css, js and svg (or any other files) into one .html. Then there's also the .h5f effort but that seems fairly pointless.
Anyways, I hope swfchan's priority will be securing a method to keep the old .swf files easily accessible in the post-Adobe future (be it shumway or anything else) rather than looking for a flash replacement.
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 29jul2017(sa)20:47 No.51903 SWF |P31R28
Hey I've heard of that .html format before! Yeah now that you mention it it would probably work just fine. Would be fun to try and make a converter that takes almost any HTML5 thing and just reassembles it into a single html document that people can pass around, could then be opened inside iframes to get that familiar embed behaviour too. Another entry on my todo list with stuff to fool around with. I'll never try to hide away .swf files though, if HTML5 ever get on swfchan it will be side-by-side my darling flash format.
|>>||Anonymous 30jul2017(su)17:42 No.51959 OP |P32R29
>I archived the Newground flashes with a 4 or 5 star rating many years ago, should try doing another run.
I'm afraid that you'll run into some problems if you try that. Since about 2013 Newgrounds has release a program called Swivel. Not only did that encourage creators to release their animations in a video only format to Newgrounds, but the administration took the liberty of changing a bunch of flash movies to video in the intervening time. This might not matter for everything, since you've already grabbed a bunch of the older flashes, however there were some that died.
One example that I was able to save via archive.org was Eternal Saturday. You can see in the NG portal it's showing up as a video but it was originally released as Flash when it was posted. I don't know how extensively this has happened, but just a simple sweep will probably only bring up games and a scant few animations.
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 30jul2017(su)19:20 No.51961 SWF |P33R30
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 1aug2017(tu)06:24 No.52012 SWF |P34
Just checked and indeed, when you are logged in a row looking like "Format swf | mp4" is added right below the row showing the date when the thing was uploaded. Clicking swf shows the flash instead of the video.
Why Newgrounds decided it was a good idea to hide this option unless logged in I don't fully understand. It doesn't necessarily have to be the default option any more but if people want to show the original format why not let them? It saves a ton of bandwidth for the site too.
My best guess is they want to encourage people to adapt their creations to the limited movie format and hiding the swf option for as many as possible makes more creators get into the mindset of thinking video is the only option they have. People watching video versions of flashes are missing out on stuff after all; mini-games or animations that could be just in the pre-loader or other interactive easter eggs during or after the main feature. It creates a split in the community between those commenting on the full experience and the people watching just the video version that don't understand what the rest are talking about.
- "Great pre-loader!"
- "What pre-loader?"
And soon enough:
- "What's a pre-loader?"
|>>||Anonymous 1aug2017(tu)07:33 No.52021 OP |P35R31
Also like someone in the big newgrounds 2020 flash thread mentioned, the html5 player sucks ass when playing a video and loading it at the same time. I've noticed that with youtube as well.
|>>||godk 3aug2017(th)07:17 No.52112 K |P36R32
It's because Newgrounds is a weenie shill for HTML5, and don't want to actually deal with what's coming down the road, and fight for .swf.
They don't care one whit about the format and its unique and superior features, it's all about MUH CONTENT.
I hope they tank because of it.
|>>||797 4aug2017(fr)05:30 No.52164 M |P37R33
|Going to try to archive flash from their website.|
I'm gonna try to download every version of flash so It can be archived.
I'll have to find a good place for hosting them..
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 4aug2017(fr)12:39 No.52169 SWF |P38R34
|>>||Anonymous 4aug2017(fr)20:18 No.52183 B |P39R35
Please beware though Admin, it looks like Adobe still thinks they have responsibility for that cursed exploitable programm executables.
I guess it's against EULA to share it.
They will most likely hunt down sites hosting them after the deadline.
Brace for takedown requests and legal threats if it's too obvious that you host it, or traitor Anon comes back for more revenge on this totally obvious scamming hacker website.
|>>||Liaison 5aug2017(sa)06:15 No.52199 N |P40R36
>I'm working on archiving Newgrounds right now btw.
YO! This is exactly what Bibanon is there for! You really ought to get in contact if you haven't. Archicing historically important site slike Newgrounds is our amongst our top priorities.
>I can't believe the amount of "blammed" entries. So many flashes, gone...
yeah the blaming system bit them on the ass on the long term. lot's of people ahve lamented historically important flashes getting blammed because people 10 years later had no way to know the joke and voted 1/5. dumb, dumb thing.
|>>||Liaison 5aug2017(sa)06:39 No.52200 N |P41
I highly doubt Adobe would try to kill flash hosting sites. Pretty sure that after they get rid of it, they'll pretend it never existed
Newgrounds has been economically struggling for years. They are one step away from swfchan's problems when it comes to funding. Ideas like the gold accounts and swf to video convertion made things a little easier for them. I don't have a good knowledge on what gets visited the most, but I'd put my guns on the hardcore userbase still funding them via donations / gold accounts and minimal add revenue from games.
With that said, it's obvious things are gonna change pretty hard for them, html5 or no html5 . Newgrounds may go under pretty soon, they have been made completely irrelevant in every niche they took part of, and first youtube robbed them of most animation revenue, and now their last niche will be lost as their games will be unplayable.
Newgrounds pioneered some things, it was soundcloud before soundcloud, it had comedy sketches before youtube. It also tried to partake in niches where stablished giants always got more attention, such as deviantART (that only got outcompeted 10 years later with Tumblr). I doubt they wanted money, I'm quite respectul of Fulp and I'd like to assume they genuinely wanted to give more features for their communtiy / shitflinging arena to play with, but they didn't watch out for any looming changes and slowly bled relevance until it ebgan costing them money. it's a shame, really. It was a good community,, despite all the autistic kids.
>You'd think they would want to use their foothold as the biggest flash site instead of trying to compete with YouTube.
"biggest flash site" has meant jack shit since 2010, and they realized that way too late.
>Why Newgrounds decided it was a good idea to hide this option unless logged in I don't fully understand. It doesn't necessarily have to be the default option any more but if people want to show the original format why not let them? It saves a ton of bandwidth for the site too.
I don't know much about bandwith consumption, what I remember frm investigating when I originally noticed the change was that they though they'd save on bandwith costs by doing it
regarding "making them think there's not option but to use video", that's really irrelevant - 99% of all internet animation is made on flash
|>>||Anonymous 5aug2017(sa)08:38 No.52202 OP |P42R37
>I don't know much about bandwith consumption, what I remember frm investigating when I originally noticed the change was that they though they'd save on bandwith costs by doing it
Depends on the content. Youtube save by only loading parts of the video, which certainly saves on those 10 hour videos that people hardly watch all the way through. With newgrounds you could assume that some people don't watch their movies all the way; however their video loader seems to load the entire video way before anyone reaches even the middle of an animation. It saves when the video is smaller than the flash. Often times that's not the case on longer works though.
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 5aug2017(sa)11:57 No.52206 SWF |P43R38
>they have been made completely irrelevant in every niche they took part of
Last time I did a partial crawl of Newgrounds was in July 2014 and the highest portal id was around 642700, today it's 697477 (an entry ironically titled "Why my animation got deleted?").
So including deletions and skipped IDs, if there are any, that's 18259 submissions on average per year for 2014-2017. Submission ID 175k was in July 2004, meaning 2004-2014 the average was 64270. Newgrounds was created July 1995, so they had 19444 per year the first nine years. These are very loose numbers but they are going backwards for sure. Of course this doesn't include their audio and art sections at all so they aren't completely irrelevant just yet.
While I was writing this post entry 697477 just got deleted. Not even blammed: "ERROR — This project has been removed by the Newgrounds moderation team."
It was just a stick figure walking around on a screenshot of his computer's desktop. Poor guy was just wondering why his last work got deleted...
Just noticed that Newground's file server's robots.txt is blocking Wayback Machine from archiving flashes.
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 5aug2017(sa)12:28 No.52208 SWF |P44
For fun let's have a look at the filesizes of Zone's "Jinxed":
.swf: 7.91 MiB
360p .mp4: 15.9 MiB
720p .mp4: 31.8 MiB
1080p .mp4: 115 MiB
The bandwidth used for one view of the 1080p movie file could have delivered the .swf version to 14.5 people. I'd be surprised if there's a video version anywhere on Newgrounds that is smaller than the source .swf file, even at 360p. Unless it's a .swf that can't be converted to video without losing something, like a flash loop where the audio and visuals are advancing separately.
|>>||Liaison 5aug2017(sa)18:46 No.52221 N |P45R39
huh. Honestly I can't imagine what's the logic behind it. Perhaps the partial video loading idea is right.
|>>||Anonymous 7aug2017(mo)15:15 No.52287 L |P46R40
It's not what you said at all, you said that Apple normally shafts its userbase but in the case of flash they didn't do it for themselves. To that I say they did it for themselves again this time, because it helps their bottom line. That it happened to be "good" for the web standard is just coincidental, you caying that you respect Apple for their "contributions to open web standards" is what triggered me in the first place. Makes it sound like you think they didn't drop flash due to it cutting into their app sales but because they thought it was best for the standard (I don't believe that for a second). Nice quoting btw, maybe you shouldn't be >implying so much.
Looks to me that they send the video in full to visitors even if they have paused, there's no clever buffering going on. Doubt it would have saved that much anyway even if they just send a part of the video.
|>>||Anonymous 30aug2017(we)12:49 No.52893 O |P47R41
|Jesus this is fucking horrible what were they thinking. I doubt that they will even open source it too so its a death sentence.|
|>>||Anonymous 3sep2017(su)05:19 No.52996 OP |P48R42
|In addition to all that's been said here's an interesting observation:|
Quite a number of school/college sites utilizes online "web apps" for turning in homework, taking roll, quizzes and even having the literature in there. However some of them, while they work well, are proprietary and depend upon flash. In my college they use canvas which depends upon flash for file uploads and one other function. I expect in some of the other competing applications, the dependence upon flash is more widespread, possibly to the point of being a flash site.
There are non-flash replacements for that type of framework an example being moodle, However in my campus the funny thing to note is that a lot of my teachers are moving away from moodle and using canvas instead.
I suspect that a number of tech illiterate students will get bad marks in these next years since nearly all of the major browsers have limited enabling flash to jumping through 10 hoops: i.e. "run just this once" is the only option for running flash at all, it's click to activate even after running and it's hidden away in the menu options or it just can't be installed at all.
Also I noticed that some of the "otaku" games from the ads on swfchan have a message directing the user on how to properly enable flash in firefox.
|>>||!///SWFAnts #ADMIN# 16sep2017(sa)00:52 No.53329 SWF |P49R43